Paul Verhoeven

Interviews

Margaret Barton-Fumo

• Publisher: University Press of Mississippi
• Year: 2016
• eBook ISBN: 9781496810168
• Topic: Media & Performing Arts
• Subtopic: Film & Video

After a robust career in the Netherlands as the country's most successful director, Paul Verhoeven (b. 1938) built an impressive career in the United States with such controversial blockbusters as RoboCop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Starship Troopers, and Showgirls before returning home to direct 2006's Black Book. After a recent stint as a reality television judge in the Netherlands, Verhoeven returned to the big screen with his first feature film in a decade, a highly anticipated French-language production, Elle, starring Isabelle Huppert.Verhoeven, who holds an advanced degree in mathematics and physics, boasts a fascinating background. Traversing Hollywood, the Dutch film industry, and now French filmmaking, the interviews in this volume reveal a complex, often ambiguous figure, as well as a director of immense talent. Paul Verhoeven: Interviews covers every phase of the director's career, beginning with six newly translated Dutch newspaper interviews dating back to 1968 and ending with a set of previously unpublished interviews dedicated to his most recent work. He experimented with crowd-sourced filmmaking for the television show The Entertainment Experience, which resulted in the film Tricked, as well as his latest feature Elle. Editor Margaret Barton-Fumo includes "Sex, Cinema and Showgirls, " a long out-of-print essay by Verhoeven on his most controversial film, accompanied by pages of original storyboards from this and some of Verhoeven's other films. Finally, Barton-Fumo allots due attention to the director's little-known lifelong fascination with the historical Jesus Christ. Verhoeven is the only non-theologian member of the exclusive Westar Institute and author of the book Jesus of Nazareth.

The Showgirl Must Go On

Dennis Hensley / 1995

From Detour, Fall 1995. Reprinted with permission by Dennis Hensley.

I’ve just seen the appropriately named teaser reel for Paul Verhoeven’s Showgirls and I’m recovering from the experience in a Sunset Boulevard cafe near the screening room. Though I’ll eventually see the whole film—and believe me, I’m counting the minutes—for my first encounter with the film’s star, Elizabeth Berkley, I’ll have to make do with just the thirteen minutes of source material provided. But what a magnificent thirteen minutes they are. Based on these few stellar minutes, the twenty-two-year old also looks to be acting and dancing her ass off in the film. This, of course, I mean figuratively, for who wants to see a movie about a stripper with no ass?

Based on what I know about Hollywood and what I’ve just witnessed on screen, I’m half expecting Berkley to sulk in to see me in baggy sweats and no makeup, claim she didn’t know what she was getting into, and get pissed off when I ask about the nude scenes.

What a refreshing surprise it is, then, when Berkley makes her entrance. Dressed to kill in a backless lace top, and shiny drawstring pants that reflect the light in all the right places, the 5'10" stunner appears to have left the straight-laced character she played on Saved By the Bell back in high school.

“I was just at the gym,” she says breathlessly, “and the Showgirls publicist calls and says, ‘Elizabeth, you’re on Sunset Boulevard.’ Did you see that over there? It’s the billboard for Showgirls. So I said to my trainer, ‘I’ll be back, I just need to go take a drive,’ so I drove up here and just stood there. I mean, it’s like a dream come true.”

“I can’t see it through the tree,” I complain.

“OK,” she says. “Let’s go on a field trip.”

ELIZABETH BERKLEY: Now we’re back in the restaurant, folks, and there’s a giant-sized pole right by our table.

DENNIS HENSLEY: It’s too big to do a pole dance with, isn’t it?

EB: Yeah, it is. You can’t grip it.

DH: What’s the operative width?

EB: About half this. Something that your hand can almost go around. (Laughs) So, I’m a connoisseur now.

DH: Have you seen the finished film yet?

EB: Oh my God, I just saw it like a week ago. You have to understand, I’ve been working at this since I was like five years old so it was pretty overwhelming. I sat in the screening room by myself. The lights went down and I started to cry because it was just overwhelming at first. I’m such a perfectionist, but at a certain point, I was able to get lost in the story, which was a good sign to me. I really thought that I was watching another girl.

DH: So what’s the story of Showgirls?

EB: It’s about this young girl whose been dealt a really bad set of cards in life and she comes to Vegas to become a showgirl. Ultimately it’s about moral choices, really, like how far would you go to get what you want, what would you give up for love. It’s a very dark drama, but it’s also entertaining because of the production numbers. I don’t think there’s ever been anything quite like it.

DH: What’s your character’s name?

EB: Nomi. It’s spelled N-o-m-i but the way I’ve always thought of her is Know Me. She’s not going to obey other people’s rules. She’ll stop at nothing to get what she wants. What drives her is her dancing. It’s the one time that she feels the most alive.

DH: How much dance training did you have before this movie?

EB: Dancing has always been one of my biggest loves. I’ve always taken classes and people have always said to me, “Well, if you’re an actress, why do you take dance class every day?” and now I’m saying to them, “Honey, this is what it was for, this movie right here.”

DH: What did you think when you first read the script?

EB: I thought, “I have to do this.” I mean, this role, I would kill for. It’s very rare you read a script where the whole focus of the film is on a woman. Also, I’m so passionate about what I go after and I really felt a lot of connection with the character right away. I just knew I had to get in the room with Paul and show him what I can do so that he could see because I really felt this strong connection. Plus it’s a little scary, you know. I didn’t become an actress to do things that are safe.

DH: Did you read any scenes and think, “I can’t do that, there’s no way they can get me to do that?”

EB: No, I didn’t. I thought, “Oh, when can I do that?”

DH: It never crossed over the line for you?

EB: No. In the beginning, I was a little nervous about the nudity but after the first day that I did it, it was fine. Paul made me feel really safe. I knew I had to feel that trust with him otherwise half the things I had to do, I could not have done.

DH: Did you go to craft services naked?

EB: Yeah, everyone did. People would be sitting there, talking, eating bananas, smoking, whatever. The thing is, the way it was shot is so beautiful. Even though there are twenty one pretty much naked bodies on the stage it’s not like you go, “Oh, breasts, breasts, breasts.”

DH: There must have been a zillion horny extras wanting to appear in the club scenes.

EB: Uh-huh, just as there are guys that go to these strip clubs. Everyone goes in for a different reason. Like some go because it’s a power trip. They can reject any girl they want and take any girl they want if they pay the money. The girls all work there for one reason, the cash.

DH: If you weren’t an actress, would being a Vegas showgirl appeal to you as a dancer?

EB: My mind can’t even go to thinking about my life without acting, to tell you the truth.

DH: Were you aware that the project existed before you auditioned for it?

EB: Yes. The year before I met Paul I saw an article in the trades that talked about Eszterhas selling the script and what it was about and I thought, “Oh my God, I have to get ahold of this script.” Then they put it on hold for a year and in that time I was so curious about these strip clubs and lap dancing clubs that when I was in New York or Vegas I went to see what it was all about. I watched and talked to the girls but I never got up there. I think for a lot of them it’s very hard to disconnect from what’s happening and to not have anger towards men. Sometimes when I would leave there I would be sad.

DH: How many auditions did you have to go through before you got the role?

EB: Four. Plus I just had to get past my agents and people telling me, “They’re definitely going to give this to a big name star.”

DH: Wouldn’t it be hard to find a name that can dance and that would be willing to do what the role required?

EB: Believe me, a lot of people wanted to kill for this. Everyone and their mother went in for this.

DH: I know. My mom didn’t even get a callback.

EB: The fact is, they would have used a dance double, so the bottom line was the acting because she carries the movie.

DH: At what point did they ask to see you dance?

EB: The third audition was a dance audition and after that I went to Idaho to do this TV movie for Disney called Cry of the White Wolf.

DH: Is there any lap dancing in that movie?

EB: No, but I was practicing pole dancing in the woods in case I had to go back for another interview.

DH: Did Paul have to go to the studio and fight for you?

EB: No. He just said, “This is who I want.” They really trust him. Look, this is the first director who in his contract, knowing that it’s going to be NC-17, was able to release it as a wide release movie in like 1,000 or 1,500 theaters.

DH: Where are you from originally?

EB: Farmington Hills, Michigan. Everyone knows everyone. I went from kindergarten through high school with the same people. I finished up high school out here actually. I live with my parents out here.

DH: What do your parents think of Showgirls?

EB: They’re excited. Matter of fact, I called my dad at work today and he’s going to drive by to see the billboard. They’re very supportive. They knew what it was before I did it.

DH: Did they come to the set?

EB: No. They’re not stage parents. My mom saw the eight-minute trailer and loved it. She actually had a similar reaction to me. She saw someone else up there. I mean, it’s not gratuitous. The nudity is necessary and essential to the story. To portray her any other way would be a lie, you know. She’s a stripper. You wear a G-string and five inch heels.

DH: Do you have brothers and sisters?

EB: I have a brother named Jason.

DH: Isn’t it weird to imagine him watching you doing a lap dance?

EB: Oh my God. Well, he’ll get turned on by the other girls in the movie. He’ll be grossed out by me. His friends, who have seen me grow up, used to tease me about being flat-chested because I didn’t develop until later in life—I was like seventeen—so they haven’t seen me since then so they’re going to be in for a surprise. And his friend said, “Okay, I don’t have a lot of cash right now so I’m going to put $7.50 for a movie ticket in an envelope and save it for September 22nd.”

DH: Did you get to keep any of the clothes?

EB: I’m going to get some of it, like these suede hip-hugger pants that lace up the front and of course, the S&M outfit with the thigh-high boots. Where I’ll wear that, I have no idea.

DH: Did you ever get turned on while you were shooting?

EB: Oh yeah. Definitely. I can’t tell you which scenes because it was pretty constant. I mean, I’m dancing to amazing music, Prince and Dave Stewart from the Eurhythmics, that’s enough right there. The dancing scenes were a real turn on. The music in this movie really got me. I could hear it twenty-million times and it still gets me. It’s all new and original in the movie. There’s one song by Prince called, “Rip, Pop Go Da Zippa.”

DH: Did you get to meet him?

EB: I met him by chance right there in Tower Records. I was walking down an aisle and he saw me and he went, “Nomi?” because they had sent him a tape of me. And I turned around and it was him.

DH: What did you say?

EB: I didn’t know what to say, because I didn’t know what to call him. So I told him how much I’ve loved dancing to his music.

A few weeks later, I see Showgirls in all its naked glory and I howl with laughter at a hundred or so things I don’t think I’m meant to, I still find myself getting into the characters, appreciating the performances (particularly Berkley’s and Gina Gershon’s) and want to know what’s going to happen next. But then, I had a good time at Exit to Eden, so what does that tell you?

If I said I was upset or offended in any enduring way, I’d be lying. Color me screwy, but I’d rather see a movie that treats lap dancers like lap dancers than one that treats hookers like ingénues. Besides, I’ve always been a sucker for the unmitigated tackiness of Vegas. What’s not to love about a film that appears to have been treated head-to-foot by a Ronco Be-Dazzler?

I talk to Showgirls director Paul Verhoeven a few days after I see his film, and despite the backlash I can feel brewing in the media, my thumb’s still turned up. Fittingly, he calls just as I’m about to welcome guests to my annual Miss America party. Though I forget to ask, I have a hunch Verhoeven is in favor of keeping the bathing suit competition.

DH: Do you remember the first time you laid eyes on Elizabeth? PAUL VERHOEVEN: Of course. She came into my office on the second day of the auditions and said, “Well you can stop looking because I am Nomi.” Of course I was testing everybody in the Central United States that I could get to; actors that can dance or dancers that can act or strippers that can do both but after a certain amount of weeks, it was more and more clear that the surest choice would be Elizabeth.

DH: After seeing the film, it seems to me that you not only needed a girl who was pretty and talented, but one that was completely devoid of inhibitions.

PV: Yes. When I felt that she was confident in both acting and dancing, I started discussing what was necessary for the movie which was that she should not be inhibited by any of the scenes that were in the script, especially, the pole dance, lap dance and some of the more sexu...

Table of contents

• Cover
• Title Page
• Copyright
• Contents
• Introduction
• Chronology
• Filmography
• How Could He?
• Blonde Greet Emigrates: Business Is Business Travels to Germany and the United States
• Turkish Delight and The Hague
• I Distrust Anyone Who Pursues An Ideal
• Paul Verhoeven on Sex and Violence in The Fourth Man
• Interview with Paul Verhoeven
• Paul Verhoeven on the Violence in His Films
• Flesh and Blood
• Man of Iron
• Paul Verhoeven Tackles Science Fiction
• Total Recall: Director Paul Verhoeven on His Mars Vacation with Arnold Schwarzenegger
• The Vitality of Existence
• Paul Verhoeven: An Interview
• Beyond Flesh and Blood
• Basic Cutting: Paul Verhoeven’s Basic Instinct
• Sex, Cinema, and Showgirls
• Showgirls: Shooting the Script
• The Showgirl Must Go On
• Dreams of War
• Interview with Paul Verhoeven
• Dutchman’s Breaches
• The Master of Science Fiction Longs for a Break from Special Effects
• The Many Dreams of Paul Verhoeven
• Paul Verhoeven
• Paul Verhoeven: Back in Black
• Devil’s Advocate
• Jesus of Nazareth
• 49 Minutes with Paul Verhoeven
• According to Verhoeven: Vertigo
• My Filmviews Interviews … Paul Verhoeven
• Verhoeven in Venice
• Shooting Elle
• Additional Resources
• Index